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Post by Figuremaster Les on Apr 12, 2007 20:02:12 GMT -5
Hi gang.
I post this here, in our secret treehouse meeting place, because it's a discussion I would openly hold with you guys, but not with the general public. Or, let's say, our clientele...
That being said, How does one quantify Art?
As in, acquire for one's own use, a priceor monetary value, for one's work?
I am not asking anyone to give up their personal methods, if they are too secretive or personal to share. I don't want to compromise anyone...but seriously, if you are comfortable to say something on this, how do you think of quanitifying custom figure work?
My sister (I know, somewhere in Chigago-land, Kevin is laughing his butt off right now...), an accountant, who lives and eats and breaths by the almighty clock, is coming down to see us sometime soon, and she is intent on spending time with me, and trying to help me to "organize" what I do based on THE CLOCK. Which, is just absurd to me personally, because, I may take 2 hours on one thing, while another similar piece may take a lot longer, for a variety of reasons, like, because I am not motivated, or can't get it right, or all that stuff I KNOW YOU GUYS UNDERSTAND....
Do some of you have a formula that works for you?
Bear in mind, I am not in any trouble here. I might could zip up a method here or there, one can always streamline what they do, but I mean, how can one justify, to a non-rightbrain thinker, what it takes to use a creative method?
It has stymied our relationship, on these grounds, for a long time now. She thinks I should just "WHIP OUT" art, and do so like I would carve a roast, or do laundry, or organize a bookshelf. Left brain style...
SO...
Thoughts, Ideas...comments...
Really. No smart alec stuff about a guy and his sister...I mean really, say, for anyone...what do you do?
How does one quantify monetarily, ART?
This should be interesting.....
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Post by casimir on Apr 12, 2007 21:01:55 GMT -5
Hmmmmm... Interesting tpoic.
I have to say, off hand, I think your sister's intentions are doomed to failure. It's a square peg, round hole situation. You can't force this stuff. (Unless you're a bona fide commercial artist, in which you case you sold your soul to the devil a long time ago, and thus your work has no soul.)
Is your sis trying to push you to make more money from artistic endeavors? Because really, even if you could just turn yourself "on" like a machine, success like that can't be planned. You have to be supremely lucky.
Speaking personally, I get asked by laymen all the time why I don't sell my customs. I then have to give them the song and dance about time constraints, and how I do this as my hobby. It's a stress release. Their eyes tend to glaze over until I explain to them that what most people want to pay for quality customs breaks down to about $3 an hour.
I may have totally missed the mark there, in regards to where you want to go with this Les.
C.
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Post by BlackKnight on Apr 12, 2007 21:04:04 GMT -5
The Value of Art,... it's simple,.. It's Vauled is measured in the EYE of the Beholder.  |
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Post by Wild Willy on Apr 13, 2007 0:25:03 GMT -5
Anything which I've made with the intent to sell, I place on ebay to get a ball park of what some may be willing to pay.
Then try to justify the time spent on the work and see if it's worth your while.
There are many variables in this method too, like sometimes ebay is hot and many times it's not.
If your looking for what a good dollar amount per hour could be, that entirely depends on the artist, his skill level and his speed.
Perhaps you could give yourself a title of "Custom figure Broker (seller) then sort of hire yourself (as an artist) for like $40 per hour to produce some figures for your (Broker Alter ego) to sell.
Will
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Post by ptassler on Apr 14, 2007 11:43:22 GMT -5
I always think of this example to some it was a soup can to Andy Warhol It was Art and in a way because he saw it that way it became art to Millions Is this an Emperors new Clothes example or did he see something through a unique perspective and in that he enlightened others That is my Eye on Art Minute ......   |
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Post by phantom11 on Apr 14, 2007 23:18:55 GMT -5
Wow; tough questions to answer, Les, and ones I have struggled with myself over the years. It IS all very subjective, and some good points have already been made. The value of a piece of art is one of the most mutable I've come across, where commodities are concerned. Both artist and buyer play a role in determining what the value of a piece will be (not unlike a great many other items one could purchase), but here, there is no set way of scaling said value since art really is determined by the beholder. I work in an art museum, and have done so for 11 years, have been to art school, studied art history, gallery management, and have spent time as an oil painter and sculptor, and even from that perspective, there are pieces in the museum that I think are utter trash, and have NO clue as to why they are valued so highly. It really does come down to what value YOU place on your time and spent energy creating a piece.
Granted, you could also factor in the cost of materials, but that may or may not be a large part of the endeavor. As far as your sister's opinion goes, what might help to explain your situation to her is the difference between ART and CRAFT. To put it very simply, CRAFT is OBJECTIVITY, and ART is SUBJECTIVITY. Craft is turning out dozens of the same thing, of perhaps very good quality, in a set period of time, and can be quantified in terms of time and material expenditure. It involves a standard of re-creating what is seen exactly as it is, and though it might be done very skillfully, it lacks the crucial element of the subjective which makes something Art. Pieces of art are unique, and are the expressions of the artists view of the world; as such they cannot be cranked out at a regular rate. They involve seeing and interpreting, and that can take a widely variable amount of time. Your sister seems to be under the impression you produce Craft, when what you produce is Art. I mean, heck, even in the Fine Arts world, if they could crank out pieces like making Craftwork, the stereotype of the starving artist would be a thing of the past. But they can't so it isn't. She just has to realize that attaching value to an art project is as subjective as the creation of the piece itself; but as long as you keep creating, well, there is a chance for some income. Not as regular in its rate as she might prefer, but, that's just how it works.
Okay, I've written enough. Anymore and this'll turn into a thesis. I hope it's some help, though, and that perhaps you two might come to some kind of understanding over it. Good luck, bro!
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Post by Figuremaster Les on Apr 15, 2007 8:44:05 GMT -5
These are all great responses. Thanks guys.
And I don't think of this as just answers meant for me.
It is labelled, Open Discussion. Granted, I am looking for some points to ponder, and how to discuss this with my sis better, and you guys have helped in this.
But, don't let your lack of having sold anything keep you from chiming in. Everyone has opinions. I am curious about more.
Thanks again.
Roy, your's is the most concise argument for my sister I have ever read! ;D Write your thesis bro!
And I love the points made by the rest of you too.
Thanks for taking the time to think on this fellas. Means a lot.
I hope this discussion isn't over.
I want to say more, just am thinking and mulling some before I respond further.
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Post by apeaholic on Apr 15, 2007 11:49:47 GMT -5
This probably has nothing to do with what you guys are talking about , but here it goes....
Awhile back I saw this news segment about an artist from New York who would poop in boxes. He made a tremendous amount of money selling his odd brand of art. Apparently, depending on what he ate , his work took on all different forms....There was even mention of a poop that looked like Jesus! At any rate , people ate it up.......Sorry, that was really bad. Seriously, the guy was making top dollar for selling boxes of poop! Someone must have helped value this guy's work before it was sold. I'm not saying it was a family member , maybe his agent , or a gallery owner? Anyhow! I think if you make something(Anything!) that people are willing to pay for , sell it for as much as you can get. No matter if you put ten hours or ten days worth of labor into a piece , ask for the highest amount possible. There's no shame in making a buck, especially if you enjoy what you're doing. I know I would. Of course , I've never sold anything in my life. But if I could make top dollar for taking dumps in boxes, that would all change at the drop of a hat. And if I had someone helping me set a price for my 'Boxed Art' , I'd be eating Bran Flakes by the truck load.
"One man's art is another man's poop."
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Post by Figuremaster Les on Apr 16, 2007 9:02:38 GMT -5
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Post by phantom11 on Apr 16, 2007 10:16:29 GMT -5
Hey, Scott, where's your post? I thought you had some good points to share; yeah we disagree on a few, but heck, I'm perfectly good with agreeing to disagree. I wanted to read what you wrote again...
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Post by apeaholic on Apr 16, 2007 11:12:07 GMT -5
Les, I knew you'd see the humor in that.....Ha..ha. You keep on keepin' on with your amazing artistic self! And let that accountant sister of yours help set your work clock , and maybe help to spin a dollar amount for some of your work. It certainly can't hurt to have the help of an accountant on business type stuff. I personally wouldn't know where to begin on guessing a price for any of your work. Every piece I've acquired from you is priceless in my eyes... I sound like a big suck-up , but I mean it. Your stuff is the top of the tops! |
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Post by radioscooter on Apr 16, 2007 20:35:23 GMT -5
Hey, Scott, where's your post? I thought you had some good points to share; yeah we disagree on a few, but heck, I'm perfectly good with agreeing to disagree. I wanted to read what you wrote again... Yeah, it was removed due to creative differences. |
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Post by Wild Willy on Apr 16, 2007 21:41:45 GMT -5
Hey, Scott, where's your post? I thought you had some good points to share; yeah we disagree on a few, but heck, I'm perfectly good with agreeing to disagree. I wanted to read what you wrote again... Yeah, it was removed due to creative differences. Scot removed it. Will |
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Post by radioscooter on Apr 16, 2007 21:57:32 GMT -5
Yeah, it was removed due to creative differences. Scot removed it. Will I had left a long, heartfelt soapbox-style response to Les' post. First one in a long while. It was edited because I had voiced some comments about one of our members. While I had not meant them to be insulting at all, quite the contrary in fact, they apparently were not seen that way and thus, my post was edited. I don't deal well with that kind of thing so I opted to remove the whole post rather than let a watered down version exist. No big deal. |
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Post by batlaw on Apr 17, 2007 21:05:31 GMT -5
Coming in late as well. Though I'm not exactly in the hobby for profit, I have sold a couple pieces via ebay and have made a couple "commissioned" pieces. This topic is ironic as I have just agreed to do my second commission.
One of the main reasons I dont do work for profit is this very scenario. "Value" is simply too difficult to quantify. Art by nature is simply too subjective. As stated above, one man's trash in another man's treasure. Likewise as the saying goes, "its worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it".
For me, Im in the boat with Casimir, it comes down to a time issue. I dont think of it as "what is the finished product worth", but "what is the sacrifice of time, effort and material worth to me"?
Heck, I would customize all the time were it realistically possible, but there are dishes to be done, a lawn to be mowed, and a wife and child much more deserving of my time and attention. Not to mention an actual Job.
This is a hobby for me that I do when I can without feeling guilty and without denying the above. Its a personal pleasure and "release". If I cant do it for my own enjoyment at will, why, how and what would make it worth while for me to do it for someone else?
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